Starting Sept. 5, 2014, Genealogy.com will be making a big change. GenForum message boards, Family Tree Maker homepages, and the most popular articles will be preserved in a read-only format, while several other features will no longer be available, including member subscriptions and the Shop.
 
Learn more


Chat | Daily Search | My GenForum | Community Standards | Terms of Service
Jump to Forum
Home: Surnames: Hamby Family Genealogy Forum

Post FollowupReturn to Message ListingsPrint Message

Richard, 1592-1641, of London; was he 2nd cousin of Sir Thomas Dale?
Posted by: Duane Boggs (ID *****6286) Date: September 21, 2011 at 11:23:08
  of 1923

Was Richard Hamby (a/k/a Richard Hanby), who died in London, England in 1641, a second cousin of Sir Thomas Dale (who died 1619)?

In 1641, Dame Elizabeth Dale of (Westminster) London, England, daughter of Thomas Throckmorton and Elizabeth Berkeley, and widow of Sir Thomas Dale, wrote her Will and soon died. Her estate included property in the Colony of Virginia. In her will, she gave "to Edward Hanby son of Richard Hanby all my land in Charles Hundred in Virginia. To Richard Hanby the son of Richard all my land in Sherlie [Shirley] Hundred in Virginia." The remainder of the estate (excluding various other bequests) was divided into two parts, one of which she bequeathed to "my friends Mr. Richard Hanby and Mr. William Shrimpton, they to serve as my executors."

At that time, Richard and Margery Hanby and their children (including Edward and Richard) were living in Westminster, London, England. The legacies and bequests to these Hanbys raise the question, “What was the relationship between the Dales and the Hanbys?”

No one has found any direct family connection between Elizabeth (Throckmorton) Dale and the Hanbys, so perhaps the connection was with her late husband.

Thanks to excellent research by Ann Blomquist, we now know that Richard Hamby was born in 1592 to Edward and Elizabeth (Reade) Hamby. Edward Hamby had been born ca. 1556 to John and Jane (Pickering) Hamby. John Hamby had been born ca. 1514 to George and Margaret (Green) Hamby, and had a sister Anne Hamby, born ca. 1610. Anne Hamby had married a Thomas Dale and resided at Alford, Lincolnshire, England. (It might not be a coincidence that John Smith of Pocahontas fame was reportedly baptized in 1580 at Willoughby, near Alford.) Thomas and Anne (Hamby) Dale reportedly had at least four children, daughters Jane and Elizabeth and sons Edward and Francis. Anne (Hamby) Dale’s children would likely all have been born between about 1526 and 1555. Her sons could have fathered children from as early as 1546 to as late as 1600.

I am now proposing as a THEORY (requiring more research and evidence to support or refute it) that either Edward, Francis, or some other unknown son of Thomas and Anne (Hamby) Dale married and had children, one of whom was a Thomas Dale, most likely born sometime between 1565 and 1570. This Thomas Dale, who would have been named for his paternal grandfather, was probably NOT an eldest son and not likely to inherit much if any land from his father, and so had to make his way in the world. In an old English tradition based on primogeniture, younger sons could seek employment in the church (as a cleric) or in the military. This Thomas Dale became a soldier by about 1587, and served in an English unit in the Netherlands fighting the Spanish. He was promoted to captain by 1594, was knighted in 1606 (and described as “of Surrey”), and in 1611 married Elizabeth Throckmorton, but fairly soon left and became involved in the governance of the Virginia colony. He died in 1619, having had no children with Elizabeth.

This Sir Thomas Dale would have been a second cousin to Richard Hanby of Westminster (that is Sir Thomas’s father would have been a first cousin of Richard’s father, Edward Hamby). Dame Elizabeth (Throckmorton) Dale certainly knew the Hanby family, as she and they all lived in Westminster (part of London). It seems very likely that she was aware of her husband’s family connections, even to second cousins. From her well-connected Throckmorton and Berkeley relatives, she may have been aware that Richard Hanby’s grandfather, John Hamby, had lived in London and worked in the government of Queen Elizabeth I. Thus, in 1641, she left lands in Virginia (which were likely her late husband’s rather than hers from her father) to her husband’s relatives, Richard Hanby and his two sons.

Richard Hanby (Sr.) died later in 1641, and some time later, his widow Margery moved to Guildford, in Surrey (where Sir Thomas Dale might have had connections, per his knighthood record). Their son Richard emigrated, and settled in Northampton County, on Virginia's Eastern Shore.

Others before me have pondered this possible Dale-Hamby connection. Researchers Peter ten Arve and Vaughn Baker raised the possibility as early as 2000, based on their research concerning Sir Thomas Dale and his antecedents. See an article they authored and published electronically at the following website: http://boards.ancestry.com/surnames.throgmorton/11.17.35.38.43.46.47.48.49/mb.ashx
Similarly, Researcher Melanie Powers posed this question in a 2007 query on the Dale genforum (www.genforum.com).

Does anyone have any information that would support or refute this theory? If so, please share by posting here.




Notify Administrator about this message?
Followups:
No followups yet

Post FollowupReturn to Message ListingsPrint Message

http://genforum.genealogy.com/hamby/messages/1899.html
Search this forum:

Search all of GenForum:

Proximity matching
Add this forum to My GenForum Link to GenForum
Add Forum
Home |  Help |  About Us |  Site Index |  Jobs |  PRIVACY |  Affiliate
© 2007 The Generations Network